The Jesus story - A serious case of plagiarism

03 January 2009   39 comments   Misc. links

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

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The Holy Bible - A serious case of plagiarism Is the story about Jesus in the bible just a serious case of plagiarism. Yes is the answer if you acknowledge the fact that the story of Horus came first; and that it did.

"Stories from the life of Horus had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). If any copying occurred by the writers of the Egyptian or Christian religions, it was the followers of Jesus who incorporated into his biography the myths and legends of Horus, not vice-versa."

It's quite shocking read actually. I don't believe in the Bible or the character they call Jesus but if I did and studied the story of Horus I'd right now feel pretty damn pranked.

Comments

waste of time
hmmm.. Good luck with that "IF" of yours..
Haris
have u watched the movie Zeitgeist? it gives a really good explanation on exactly how plagiarized it is
Peter Bengtsson
I have! It's nuts! Really scary actually. The film isn't very subtle and it talks about all wrongs of the world and not just the christian fools. I wish some non-converted would dare to see that film too.
Anonymous
Yes
Scarr
The only way to prevent a disease is to kill it at the source, the same can be said of all religions
Ketih
Can anyone show or prove the story of Horus before the New Testament. In other words, where is the "written text" or any other proof that the story of Horus existed prior to the birth of Jesus? Anyone?
Nina
Consider reading the Emerald Tablets by Thoth
Anonymous
You can't prove the story of Jesus either. The oldest book is a copy wriiten well after his death and there are no records of any sort to back it up either
Sherri
There is quite a difference between the story of Horus and Jesus life.. Horus was born of a goddess where Jesus was born of a virgin (human).. There are too many differences to even say that New Testament was plagiarised of his story.. Also the only info we truly have are hieroglyphics which have been proven many times over to be interpreted wrong for many do not know what all the symbols to be correct.. As a study of anthropology I understand the area where there mistakes can be made.. So to say that their is any correlation between the two.. It is quite the fallacy to follow this train of thought.. :)
Peter Bengtsson
Interesting. Are there any other major differences?

I can see how hieroglyphics can be misinterpreted since they're so different from modern languages. Also, the people who wrote the bible probably weren't inspired by the hieroglyphes; they were probably inspired by the written down interpretation of Horus which is like chinese whispers a bit.

Can you enlighten me as to what this has to do with anthropology?
Anonymous
just read
Mark Watson
I believe their are a lot of honest sincere atheist and agnostic people who are interested in the truth. Truth is something many people desire. When someone doesn't have a deep understanding of spiritual things, it's easy to find many errors and contradictions, especially if that's your motive. I have many answers to many statements that skeptics use as contradictory, errors, and in this case plagiarism. The Bible has many similar stories to earlier published stories, but that doesn't make it guilty of plagiarism. For example, Adam and Eve obviously told their offspring of the Great Fall, and that story has been passed down from generation to generation. Now whomever has the earliest record it would seem as though they were the authors of the original story, whereas in reality they were the first to record it. So when we see a similar story in another culture and language, it doesn't necessarily mean that they plagiarized, it could just be that they decided to record the story later or maybe they had older manuscripts that were destroyed... This concept is applicable to other stories in the Bible. So if you are a believer, don't defer your faith. And if you don't believe or have doubts it's time to regain your faith. Remember faith is the substance of things Hoped for, evidence of things Unseen and without faith it is impossible to please God, and anything that is not faith is sin (Hebrews chpt. 11).
Anonymous
Do you actually believe Adam and Eve were real?
Mark Watson
Absolutely. I firmly believe it's easier to believe in an always existent God who created us in His image than something coming from nothing and evolving.
Anon2
I agree, it is easier to believe in a God who magicked everything into existence and is all benevolent, but reality doesn't comply to those rules.
Adam and Eve had two sons, who got married and had children of their own. Except Adam,Eve and and their children were the total sum humans on earth. Who did Cain and Abel marry?
More importantly, I find it very concerning the thing God didn't want Eve to eat was Knowledge.
The human body is so poorly designed, God must be either incompetent or malevolent to design us the way he did. His replication system doesn't even work correctly, as can be shown through genetic diseases, which are the result of the genetic replication failing.
If evolution isn't correct, why is the fossil record full of transitional fossils? If evolution doesn't work, how come modern medicine works? How come the human Genome project found hundred of redundant traits in our DNA?
If anything, I think the biblical view devalues everything humans have achieved. Rather than fighting our way to the top through millions of years of evolution, all our achievements can be attributed to some ethereal being.
But this wasn't what caused me to lose faith. Ironically enough, it was the Bible itself. I've never read a more despicable barbaric book in my life. All of Gods punishments were unfair and his demands ludicrous. Rape a woman, she's now married to you. Work on the sabbath = death. Child argues against parents = death. Claims gays to be evil, well why are they even there in the first place?!
It didn't help that it constantly defied reality. Such as a man surviving in the stomach of a whale for more than three days. ( whales don't produce oxygen in their Stomach)
Michael A Schara
Since you obviously have a degree in Theology from YouTube U, when were you planning on updating the rest of our biblical scholars with the truth?
"...an always existent god"? So when the bible reads "In the beginning..." and claims your god created everything, where can we point our telescopes to see the evidence of his influence in our temporal and physical reality? To pull creation off, god would have to exist outside time and space and thus interact with our three dimensional space which would leave behind evidence. It's an unfortunate effect of the physical laws your god built into the universe he created. Answering with "God's not bound by those laws, he's God.", is essentially the same nonsensical BS as someone asking if god could create something so heavy that even he couldn't lift it. The rest of the kids on the playground must so jealous!
"...created us in his image"? Last I checked, I had a reflection in the mirror. I'm also pretty confident that I've seen other people in my lifetime. Why aren't we invisible? Who has a picture of god that I can compare to a picture of a human?
"...something from nothing..."? Matter and energy are two facets of the same item. Wouldn't you agree? We can change matter into energy (think nuclear explosion) and vice versa (think man-made elements). Now if all of the matter and energy in our universe were closer together yesterday than they are today, then at some point in the very distant past they must have been extremely close together. Would you say that this tightly compacted matter/energy accumulation is "nothing" as you claim? Now keep rewinding time until matter and energy can no longer be discerned as distinct items but actually are one homogeneous mix of that is neither matter nor energy but a zero dimensional point of infinite density/temperature. Is that still "nothing"? You can't put a tape measure on it as it has no dimensional properties that we experience in our macroscopic lives. You can't weigh it as there's no frame of reference for that property to make sense. Is "nothing" still the answer you want to assume "something" came from? Why is it that apologists conveniently forget all the stuff that comprises our universe when they think of the Big Bang?
"...evolving"? Were you born full-size at exactly your current age from some dust god pulled together? Do you believe that the human reproductive process was installed into two adult humans of opposite sex in fully working condition? Bear in mind these two humans were genetically identical as the rib from one was used to create the second. What happens when there's a lot of inbreeding in a closed group of, well, anything? Think English monarchy or Kentucky (not all Kentuckians, just the ones that wouldn't read this or understand it if they did). You get a butt-load of window-lickers. Now Adam and Eve had two sons initially. One killed the other, leaving just one son and Adam and Eve. Who did Cain marry to continue his lineage up to Enoch and the flood? Do you want to rethink your position on any portion of your statement? This planet has seen no less than five mass extinctions in 4.5 billion years. Perhaps, just perhaps, we are the latest product of evolution on a planet that has had several radical readjustments to environmental conditions necessary to maintain a fragile hierarchy of living organisms. <- This answer is MUCH easier than yours, has far fewer logical fallacies, fits with the observable and testable evidence, and isn't unnecessarily complex due to injecting a "creator" into an otherwise elegant reality.
Peter Bengtsson
Wow! What a nice response. Thank you.
But mind you, just because the stories are plagiarized doesn't make it bad. A lot of things in life is plagiarized but vastly improved. Like Google plagiarized the idea of a search engine but did it a LOT better.
Hapax
How do you know the stories of Horus were not plagiarized from the Jews since they held to. Messianic beliefs before 4 or 7 bc?
Anonymous
Well... I don't know much about Christianity but Muslims think Quran is the word of God. Why did God give repeatative stories? Did God revise himself? I thought god was perfect by definition. The Adam and Eve story is a good example here.
Mark Watson
The birth of Christianity and Islam comes from Judaism. However, there is only one truth, and truth never contradicts itself. It's very complicated, but here's my email if you're interesting on finding out much more: mhwatson93@gmail.com
Lee
So peter the stories are plagarized and according to you as long as they have been improved upon it is ok? Sorry but is this not the infallible word of the christian god? The ultimate book of "TRUTH"? Why on earth would you accept that? How can you dedicate your life to a book that has ripped of other religions and gods? And ultimatley how can you know the bible to be true and accurate when it has blatantly ripped of other cultures but improved up on the tales somewhat?
Anonymous
Plagiarism does not mean it was copied word for word. But the basic ideas are the same with some twists. Adam and Eve were not real. The earth is not 6000 years old and there is not one account of the "miracles" Jesus worked that was written while he was alive. The gospels were written years after a man named Jesus lived. Not only that, but the four "canonical" gospels contradict each other all over.
Mark Watson
1 Corinthians 1:18 / 2:14 (NIV)

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Mark Watson
I believe these are very great and powerful resources, what do y'all think?

The Genesis Conflict Series:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwQY8D8NXJNOCZ6o78mLhCXxLivln7X6V

Have You Swallowed The Hook Series?:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL13eE2x3qhPl7ka2P7yD7VP6XBmree6vJ

Did Darwin Murder God?:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjfLxyxVTljFdgdL4gJK8jehBcAe-ml_M
Kobe
Mark Watson stop trying to convince people that don't believe through the Bible it won't work
anon
1. In the time of Cain, Noah, Moses etc... God seemed to be very good at verbal communication with humans. Yet now for thousands of years he hasn't said a word! Is it cause he doesn't care enough about humans anymore to communicate with them, or is he just an ignorant git and he's ignoring the human race as he's found something better to do, or is it cause he never existed in the first place?
2. If God really existed and cared for the human race as much as is claimed, why then does he allow so many to kill and murder in his name and to abuse children while using religion and Gods' name to sanctify the abuse? Again, if he was real and existed then to sit back and allow this to happen in his name means he's one helluva a mother******!
3. The fact that the Bible has been edited, rehashed and many parts omitted to the pleasure of the religious hierarchy, is all the more reason to not take anything in there too seriously - to hold up the bible and say that this is proof that Jesus and God exists is similar to holding up a comic book and saying Spiderman is real.
4. No matter what anyone can say - religion has been and continues to be a massive business controlled by a bunch of elitists for their own gains and to cover/hide their crimes that has cost the lives of countless millions in our history and continues to do so.
5. The Vatican alone has so many documents that they will not release, probably as it disproves God was a misinterpretation of some events thousands of years ago - Vatican have even agreed that aliens exist! Now, if aliens visited earth thousands of years ago in a ship that came down from the heavens with a roar of thunder and fire, with technology well beyond the comprehension of humankind at that time ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke), wouldn't the people at that time think these aliens were "Gods"?
Don Descartes Tiago Quixote
Here's my take on this one. I've long seen the comparison of Horus' and Jesus' story concluded in a plagiarism, so I took the time to skim the both entry and check their similarities and difference. If the accounts are true, and Horus' story is older, then you know what the result is.

But it bothers me that no one bat's an eye about it. What if scholars who studies the hieroglyphs of Horus just lets it go.
What if the point of Horus' story is for the spook, coz if you read everything in the bible its just a mesh of moral and spook stories.

In my conclusion, just a wild guest, no scholarly records to defend it, Someone or some people let the Horus' story plagiarized into the Jesus story bcoz it will serve more of its purpose. But, the set backs are, Catholics worships the bible too much that they took the stories quite literally. Thrown the idea that this is a story of someone else, they just let you borrow it so that you can learn lessons from it, and not worship it or shove it in other peoples' throat.
Michael Russo
Read the full stories. The parallels are loose in each religion’s hero vs. Jesus. Really and truly. And the implications of the other religions simply mean that the god came into the world and did stuff and was killed or put back together or performed miracles. But the implications don’t really mean much. They are simply myth. The implications of Christ mean that YOU can and are called to inherit His Spirit through the physical sign of Baptism and the spiritual transformation through the real outpouring of the Holy Spirit(the Spirit of Truth - Literally, not a power claim but literally The Truth). Jesus told Pontius Pilot, “I’ve come into the world for this one purpose, to testify to the Truth.” Who else said that? And also, if you have read the Gospels and into Acts, you would happen upon the persecution of the early Church, and Gamaliel, a Jewish elder, tells the angry Jewish leaders to send out the Apostles, who they wanted to punish and shut down by force, and he told the Jewish leaders that many had risen and claimed to be somebody, and people followed them, and they fell away once their leader died. So he advised them, if it is the work of men, leave them alone, it will end, but if it is the work of God, they may find themselves battling against God! This is a bold statement which is why I greatly promote everyone learning as much as they can about the Catholic Church so as to destroy it, really and truly. I guarantee that you will be converted if you give it true lasting effort. It is ‘t Something you can just arrive at an answer or rationalization for not following, you must truly refute it at its central points. Is Jesus who He says He is? In this case you have to read Scripture, refer to Church doctrine(which greatly differs from MOST Christian churches...I.e. Catholics don’t believe in a purely literal Adam and Eve but mainly a paradigmatic Adam and Eve with logical lessons and consequences in reference to their relationship with Truth(God)—look up Bishop Barron’s various YouTube talks on Adam and Eve as a unique creation story depicting God not as in competition with creation or evil as compared to the common creation stories of the time such as the Epic of Gilgamesh).

No other place will you find such an edifying and rich intellectual tradition as the Catholic Church. I highly recommend reading A.G. Sertillanges The Intellectual life, and not only will you see a deeply religious man but someone who has a poetically romantic love for Truth and pure knowledge. “All truth is redemptive.” That is a quote from a Catholic priest. Not all things claiming to be truth are true! But all truths are redemptive! Because they all point back to the Ultimate Truth, in and through which all things are interrelated! Peace and blessings, brothers. Keep seeking and don’t trust until you find these redemptive truths!
Michael Russo
Also, Catholics believe in something called baptism of desire, which is Scriptural, straight from the lips of St. Paul, and is aligned with conscience, which says that God knows me through and through. So this whole, if you aren’t physically baptized you are going to hell thing is complete rubbish. And, the Spirit of Truth is always around no matter if you are Catholic or Atheist or Hindu. Some people believe that the Holy Spirit isn’t around any more, even some Christians believe this. This is logically ridiculous.

Okay, I’ve said my peace. I’m collecting research for a talk. I’ll post my findings here and compare the common misconceptions with the real stories. It’ll save your heart a lot of stress.
Michael Russo
This web page actually covers all of it. Please post all three of my comments so this isn’t just random. All of them are important for earnest Truth seekers.
Michael Russo
If you don't post my post sharing the webpage refuting zeitgeist then you are liars and propagating lies. In the instance where you don't post the webpage refuting zeitgeist you also don't believe in the strength of your own argument or else you would let the facts lay where they may.

http://reasonsforjesus.com/zeitgeist-debunked-jesus-is-not-a-copy-of-pagan-gods/
Jack Robinson
For the sake of intellectual arguments, reasoning and mental exercise, discourse in Jesus Christ story plagiarism is OK. However, not a single person has referred to man as a spirit being, who has a soul and lives in a body. The heart of the matter is spirituality - your perception, and locus standi will definitely change if you see Man as a spirit.

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